Russia-Ukraine War

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fiksal
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Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Post by fiksal »

The best parade is in Ukraine, of destroyed Russian armor. Everything else is p*** waiving on a country level.

Actions is what matters. Equipment and boots on the ground.
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mr.WHO
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Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Post by mr.WHO »

fiksal wrote: Sat, 17. Aug 24, 05:03 The best parade is in Ukraine, of destroyed Russian armor. Everything else is p*** waiving on a country level.
Hopefully we'll see Ukraine Victory Parade (I mean not in Moscow, but celebrating retaking all their occupied lands as victory).
That will be a sign to behold - everything and everyone, tons of varius equipment, interantional legion and allies.

That would probably be the biggest event since celebration of WW2 end.
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Re: Russia-Ukraine War

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yep it's would be a day to remember
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Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Post by chew-ie »

Indeed - I'd even get some vacation and participate :)
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Re: Russia-Ukraine War

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However. One Russian commentator said, in likelihood, this will be a day that many will be tired to celebrate, with victory that will not bring justice
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Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Post by felter »

John Sweeney, a British investigative journalist, made a good point, if Russia were to invade Britain tomorrow, the British populace would be up in arms and fighting against the invasion, they would maybe fail and die, but they would still try, meanwhile the Russian populace in Kursk are doing nothing against the Ukrainian invaders that are now in their country, they have all but accepted them. Also, you notice Russia has not been able to do anything about the Ukrainians in Kursk, and they have been there for some time now, none of this makes Russia look competent or shows that the Russians are not all behind Putin special military operation, it looks more like they would rather be under Ukrainian control.
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Re: Russia-Ukraine War

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Re: Russia-Ukraine War

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it seems like Russians view Kursk invasion as a disaster that they have no control over, versus an invading force.

Two commentators mentioned similar points. Hard to say, but it may explain the lack of discussion in the Russian space. As if everyone thinks it's someone else's problem.

While I think Ukraine did this right, I also think Putin doesn't actually care about Kursk
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Re: Russia-Ukraine War

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Agreed, maybe the Russian elites just don't care about Kursk. How much more embarrassing can this get for the Russian army?
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Re: Russia-Ukraine War

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I am trying to do the math in my head,
looking at the current army, added on to the fully destroyed army, plus outdated and unreliable equipment, no signs of morale in last two years, then add that Russians are pretty resilient about staying apolitical, minus the Z fascists who are, and let's not forget subtracting Wagner mutiny, I end up with nearly zero army to defend if a foreign force starts walking across Russia.

while Ukraine we think will not go to Moscow, it doesn't seem there's anything actually to stop it, hilariously
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Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Post by Falcrack »

fiksal wrote: Sun, 18. Aug 24, 04:01 While I think Ukraine did this right, I also think Putin doesn't actually care about Kursk
Putin, like all sociopathic world leaders (including one running for US president) cares for exactly one thing. Himself. As long as losing Kursk doesn't mean losing his job or his head, he's okay with it.
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Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Post by Tamina »

I don't see the Russian army struggling. In contrary actually. Ukraine has no war industry and can't adapt to new situations on the battlefield when needed, while the Western supplied weapons they depend on are rapidly spiraling down to 0% effectiveness due to the Russians being able to adapt.

The Western states thought a one time supply of ""superior"" western weapons would do the trick.

And you can see the Ukrainians slowly grinding down, losing ground and important infrastructure due to non existent anti air and missile capabilities anymore.

To be clear. I am not on Russias side and I am for Ukraine in Russias initiated war, purely because they are the victim of this terrible crime. However, Russia shows over and over again, that you should never underestimate your enemy.

(And so do the Ukrainians)

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Re: Russia-Ukraine War

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Russian does on paper have everything but yet after nearly 3 years they have made little to no headway, yes they have taken a bit of land here and there but at the same time they have lost a bit here and a bit there. Even their own war industry is also struggling to keep up, so much so that right now they are dependent on weaponry from North Korea of all places. Ukraine also does have a war industry, and it's based nearly totally on building drones, like last night there were over 40 drone attacks on Russia a quarter of them on Moscow itself, and they were all Ukrainian made drones, the Russian Black Sea fleet has been decimated, and it was mainly done by Ukrainian made drones. They also are making their own long range missiles along with other things, granted they are not knocking them out by the hundreds, but they are still making them, SO it's a bit misleading saying they don't have any war industry, while it may not be on the same level as the Russians, they actually still do have one, and they are using it more effectively than the Russians are.


It will take the Russians around 10 years to replenish what they have lost so far in this Special Military operation, So no matter how large their war industry currently is right now, it's also struggling to keep up. The other problem they have is the bigger it is, the easier it is to find and destroy, as the Ukrainians keep displaying.
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Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Post by fiksal »

Tamina wrote: Wed, 21. Aug 24, 22:19 I don't see the Russian army struggling.
for a medieval sort of army, Russia is doing great

my point was not about underestimating, it's me wondering out loud how much a foreign force can actually walk across Russia

you saw that no Russian took up arms, that's not how it went in ww2
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Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Post by chew-ie »

Interesting range of emotions from Russia about having Ukraine soldiers within their borders. From [1] "let's obliterate [the United Kingdom] UK" to [2] "this is the new normal".

Sources:
[1] russian state TV: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=691SFDG5luU
[2] yahoo.com / Kyiv Independent, https://www.yahoo.com/news/kremlin-tryi ... 56117.html
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Re: Russia-Ukraine War

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Tamina wrote: Wed, 21. Aug 24, 22:19I don't see the Russian army struggling.

While we don't know for certain what's happening (fog of war and all that) Russia certainly seems to have a hard time in Ukraine:

-They're burning through their Soviet stockpiles rapidly, and they're asking Iran and North Korea for equipment and ammunition.

-They are slowly advancing but the cost in terms of equipment and soldiers is very high*.

-They actually don't have enough troops to defend their territory, Prigozhin and now the Ukrainians are exploiting this.


*No idea how long Russia can keep losing equipment at this rate, but those Soviet stockpiles are not infinite. The quality of tanks and soldiers is diminishing. One thing that's being put to the test in this war is the idea that numbers alone can win.
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Re: Russia-Ukraine War

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What worries me is what happens if the West stops helping Ukraine. Is it instantly and automatically over?
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Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Post by mr.WHO »

notaterran wrote: Thu, 22. Aug 24, 18:47 What worries me is what happens if the West stops helping Ukraine. Is it instantly and automatically over?
Even, if Western budgetary contribution is decreasing, it's shifting to using seized Russian assets.
Those 300b $ can still keep Ukraine afloat for next 3-4 years.

Looking at Russian equipment and personel attrition rate, it's them who doesn't have more than 2 years.



Plus, don't uderestimate Russian talent to do something stupid.

E.g. even more dealings with North Korea, that will push South Korea and Japan to be more helpful to Ukraine.
or Winne the Pooh doing so stupid, that every sane country in Asia will want to be on US/Europe/Ukraine good side - simple calculation is that Ukraine war will end someday and next Ukraine might be in Asia...so better start accumulating friends and favors now, than regret later.


The real reason and real value of The West is that it's a club of nations that try to help eachother.
For the same reason BRICS is a joke, coz it's a band of opportunist who are trying to screw eachother.

Even in this war alone, Ukraine has now more allies than before war and Russia has less allies than before war.
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Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Post by jlehtone »

notaterran wrote: Thu, 22. Aug 24, 18:43 One thing that's being put to the test in this war is the idea that numbers alone can win.
Wasn't that already tested in the Great War?
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Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Post by notaterran »

I guess we'll know with more certainty after the war is over: Russian losses of men and equipment vs. Ukraine's.
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