Russia-Ukraine War

[fiksal]

Russia will keep what it has stolen, and there must be assurances that NATO will stay out of Ukraine, or that at least there be a neutral buffer region. Given the battlefield situation, these conditions have been obvious for a long time.

I think you need to get to know some Ukrainians, on what they think about living under Russian occupation, before giving the whole country to Russia. And relatives of people killed in Bucha, and elsewhere.

Unless you are "Z", are you?

[mr.WHO]

If Russia has so much resources at their disposal then why they are now bleeding through North Korean equipment and soldiers?

Doesn't look good for MightyRussiaTM narrative.

[Observe]

Unless you are "Z", are you?

I am pro let there be peace now!

Already we have North Korea directly involved. South Korea is considering their response. It is not a stretch seeing China backing Russia even further. It's not hard to see the dominos falling into world war. Surely humans can do better.

I deplore what Russia has done. I also don't think Ukraine has a realistic chance to reverse their losses. Does that make me "Z"?

[Observe]

If Russia has so much resources at their disposal then why they are now bleeding through North Korean equipment and soldiers?

Why wouldn't they? North Korea benefits from obtaining technology and a battle-seasoned force, which their eternal enemy South Korea doesn't have. Russia benefits from further global destabilization to distract Ukraine allies. Just a guess.

[mr.WHO]

Seems like your pro-peace narrative is awfully selective - you're fine with what Russia and North Korea is doing, but somehow Ukraine shouldn't fight and just surrender.

[Vertigo 7]

It's a damn good thing you're not able to make that decision for anyone, Observe. By your logic, the US should be under confederate rule, assuming you were okay with the US fighting off the British for independence. If not, then we should still be a colony of England? In both cases our ancestors were met with a seemingly superior force. But, for a supposed veteran, I'm surprised this has to be explained to you, superior tactics won both wars. In the same way superior tactics has held Russia off all this time from conquering Ukraine.

Ukraine has the absolute right to independence and self-determination. It's easy for you to bemoan the loss of life while you get to keep your freedoms no matter what happens, but I bet you would be singing a different tune if you were faced with the prospect of living under Russian oppression.

[Tamina]

Unless you are "Z", are you?

I am pro let there be peace now!

I agree with you, not pro-Russia but Russia will never give up before Ukraine imo.

And while I am strongly pro-Peace as you are, I think Ukraine has to defend themselves as much as they can. What sounds contradictory has a simple but sad logic to it: When an attacker has no consequences to fear, there will be no peace on earth. For anyone. Ever.

I am looking at the US were it is "cheaper" that the personell does not defend themselves against robbers, including security. Well... then people just walk in and take stuff, without any push back and consequences.

[Vertigo 7]

Here's another thing. Surrender is no guarantee of peace. It's far more likely Ukrainians would start disappearing when they don't meet ethnic Russian standards. They will be just as dead only without having had the ability to fight back.

[mr.WHO]

Worst part is that Ukraine already has a preview what surrender will look like from currently occupied lands - fighting age people from Doneck and now the newly occupied lands are first to be pushed to meatgrinder.

Surrender wouldn't mean peace for Ukrainians at all, only who will shoot at them next - Moldovans? Georgians? Kazahs? or entire NATO?

[chew-ie]

Russia showed the whole planet what it does during peace time - scheeming, undermining country governments, sneaking soldiers into position, rile up useful idiots [who die[d] happily first]. Anybody looking for peace here should open their eyes what Russia did to all of us - and their own people [who are shunned for decades to come].

[fiksal]

Unless you are "Z", are you?

I am pro let there be peace now!

then you should try to understand that there's no peace until Ukraine can be guaranteed safety.

and in my book, there's no peace for Ukrainians while they are detained, killed, treated as less than people in occupied territories.

I have yet to hear a peace proposal that addressed both points above. Except from Zelensky.

I heard one from Kremlin that doubles down on the above.


to be "Z" one must say that Russia has a legitimate claim to Ukraine, for starters.

it doesn't

[notaterran]

I wouldn't bet on Russia folding first.

I'm sure some people were saying this 40 years ago about Afghanistan.

[burger1]

Ukraine's free to use US weapons to hit long range targets in Russia. Not sure what it really means or what missiles Ukraine actually has. Some targets like tank factories are the size of small cities. A bit late but better than nothing.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/long-range-mi ... 27612.html

[fiksal]

I think there were some targets unreachable, like military bases.

Late as always, but if one actually thinks this war can end next year, then it's one more tool in the toolbox

[notaterran]

The Kremlin warned Monday that President Joe Biden’s decision to let Ukraine strike targets inside Russia with U.S.-supplied longer-range missiles adds “fuel to the fire” of the war and would escalate international tensions even higher.

Link

Just another empty threat by Russia, we see how much the mighty Russian army has been struggling in Ukraine. Only in their dreams they could tangle with the U.S. in the sorry state they are now. They will do some more sabotage across Europe but there's no way that Russia directly attacks a NATO country.

[EGO_Aut]

Hazel-RS26 ICBM tested over the city of Dnipro, Yuzhamash plant hit.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/pu ... 024-11-21/

Edit: its not sure which missile it was some sources say it had multible conventional warheads, some say it was a mid range missile. But it looks that Putin want to gain more pressure in this conflict.

[mr.WHO]

I wonder, if there are some Western ICBMs pending decommission that could be decomissioned by Ukraine.

[notaterran]

Putin is trying to convince the West to take him seriously, maybe he'll talk about red lines again.

[fiksal]

yes, Putin's strategy to get respect is in how many people he manages to kill

[Observe]

Putin is trying to convince the West to take him seriously, maybe he'll talk about red lines again.

The West IS taking this new escalation seriously - as they should. NATO and Ukraine to hold emergency talks after Russia's attack with new missile. Continuing to ignore such redlines would be a perilous pastime of monumental stupidity.

yes, Putin's strategy to get respect is in how many people he manages to kill

That's kind of been the strategy of wars throughout history.