Trump Presidency

[PersonyPerson]

Ok see now I know 100% you're full of crap. Harris never ONCE mentioned any kind of support for gender affirming care on her campaign, or even campaigned on DEI.

Pinning Harris down on anything is a matter of sorting through her indecipherable word salads. She did say in avoidance: "That is a decision that doctors will make in terms of what is medically necessary." The problem is that these "doctors" she refers to, think that that gender-affirming "care" (drugs and surgery) in children is medically indicated and necessary. Again, fortunately more countries and States are waking up to this shameful and arguably criminal area of the medical industry.

On DEI, she likewise is pretty wishy-washy, but here is one example: Harris defends DEI. There are many others. She was quite clear on this.

Meritocracy is the way to go if we want excellence. Force-fixing social injustices is not what the workplace is for. This needs to be corrected deeply within society as a whole. Hopefully, eventually this will get sorted out among humans.

If we were in the 1800's, you'd without a doubt be one of those individuals who'd use the same kind of lame excuses to support slavery.

As someone who actually believes in Meritocracy, your entire belief system, judging from what I've observed you post on this thread is inherently anti-meritocratic. There is not a single thing you've said on here that promotes it. It's just cult/hero worship combined with desires for pseudoscience, kleptocracy, bigotry and enforcing ignorance. Populistic uninformed rubbish. The individuals that YOU support never acquired their positions through merit, but through inheritance, family names, not having the same educational standards barriers (Private education) and all the automatic networking connections that brings... Nepotism. Here's a very basic but well thought out rebuttal against any right-wing individual who pretends to care about Meritocracy. Their version does not and has never existed.

It also seems the Americans want to have an unaccountable mafia state like Russia is. So we in Europe need to start treating them as such. Sanction them for legitimate reasons and their continuous sponsoring/incitement of far-right extremism before they arbitrarily sanction us for completely irrational ones. We should not be intimidated by a US government infested with science deniers and conspiracy theorists that is desperate to enforce their dystopian visions upon the rest of the world.

[Observe]

If we were in the 1800's, you'd without a doubt be one of those individuals who'd use the same kind of lame excuses to support slavery.

I am an advocate for human rights. Animal rights too. For example, I haven't eaten meat for 30+ years because I don't support the conditions of animal slavery in factory farms where animals are confined, often in small spaces, and subjected to castration, dehorning, tail docking without anesthesia, separation of babies from their mothers, etc. Such practices are akin to the worst inhumane treatment of human slaves.

I suppose the above comparisons will be seen as silly or ridiculous. Most humans impose slavery on all life indiscriminately. If you are going to point the slavery stick, best consider all the lame excuses people use to justify the cruel pain and suffering imposed upon gentle non-human creatures.

I seldom bring up the parallel between slavery and animal torture because most carnivores get upset by it, but the analogy is not unwarranted.

Granted, my comments will likely be seen as off-topic. I only bring it up to highlight the hypocrisy of condemning slavery while at the same time having a supply of factory farm meat in the refrigerator.

[Vertigo 7]

I got a whole freezer full of various cuts of beef and pork. They're freaking delicious too.

[Observe]

I got a whole freezer full of various cuts of beef and pork. They're freaking delicious too.

Proves that you are not a liberal, even less a progressive.

The liberals that I associate with are those who share ideals such as environmental sustainability, animal rights, ethical consumption, opposition to war, opposition to censorship, question authority, against slavery (including animals), etc.

Seriously though. If you want to eat meat and support the cruelty industry, that's on you. I have enough faults of my own to contend with.

[Vertigo 7]

You're confusing tree hugging hippies with liberals. They may have some overlap but they're most definitely not the same thing. Of course, if you really were a liberal, you would know that. Hippies are just a waste of flesh and space.

Tell me something. When thousands of blades and hooks and claws violently rip plants apart and/or from the ground to package their offspring and send them off to be ground into ingredients for other foods or sold and consumed, do you cry for those poor baby plants too? Or do you happily consume their life as well? They are living things, after all. Hell, often still alive when you're consuming them. Or do they not count to you because they can't walk around and make noises? You've deemed them sufficiently "less" so that you can justify your plant murder?

[Observe]

Best we return to topic before Moderator admonishment sets in.

[euclid]

Best we return to topic before Moderator admonishment sets in.

An excellent point.

Cheers Euclid

[fiksal]

I believe this is on topic and on point:

we seem to have widely different definitions of Liberalism. Which in turn leads to discussion whether Trump supporters are liberal. And crossing over to Trump's stance on many issues from child prisons, to abortions, to freedom of press, to rights from oppression.

So present me your definitions. I will be boring and will go with the summary from wiki. But we could pull a dictionary definition

"Liberalism is a political and moral philosophy based on the rights of the individual, liberty, consent of the governed, political equality, right to private property and equality before the law"

Trump only defends subset of rights of subset of individuals. Trump isn't liberal. People who voted for him subscribe to his policies.

Trump believes that Ukrainians do not have the right to be self governed, that the Russians have the right to oppress them, that Ukraine isn't a real country. These of course are paroted from Kremlin. Trump isn't liberal, Kremlin isn't liberal. People who subscribe to that version of peace, which is dominant around Trump supporters are not liberal. Russians know they are not liberal.

Present me where my assumptions are wrong.

Or admit my summary is good and let's move on


Swipe typed over phone with many swipe typing mistakes no doubt

[Vertigo 7]

"Liberalism is a political and moral philosophy based on the rights of the individual, liberty, consent of the governed, political equality, right to private property and equality before the law"

This exactly. Tho I don't think anyone confused the Orange one's cult members as liberals, no matter how much some try to convince us that's what they are.

[Observe]

"Liberalism is a political and moral philosophy based on the rights of the individual, liberty, consent of the governed, political equality, right to private property and equality before the law"

This exactly. Tho I don't think anyone confused the Orange one's cult members as liberals, no matter how much some try to convince us that's what they are.

Yes, you guys are right. Happy? No point arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
Moving on...

[clakclak]

So next on the list of cuts planned by government financial Tsar Elon Musk is the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. The Bureau had in the past investigated companies owned by Musk and thus landed on his radar. Eliminating a financial watchdog that is a direct threat to him would probably constitute a conflict of interest if Musk was an elected official, however as his powers were purchased and not gained by vote I assume that conflicts of interest do not apply here.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/musk-c ... 024-11-27/

https://www.realclearmarkets.com/articl ... 16898.html

[fiksal]

so any law that protects consumers is obsolete in their book. Gotcha

Grabbing pop corn

[Vertigo 7]

This must be some of those "great ideas" we've been told he's going to bring. What's next, I wonder? Lifting the limit of arsenic and other poisons that can be found in food? Or maybe just eliminating those inspectors all together cuz we know businesspeople are soooo trustworthy Thye'd never push something that'd screw over the population if it meant they could make a buck... right?

[matthewfarmery]

I think any promises of tariffs probably would have applied before Musk was given a job? but now, I could still see Trump going through with his tariff promise, even if this hurts Musk in the long run. after all, Trump mentioned applying tariffs pretty early on. It would be interesting if Musk convinces Trump to backtrack on this? but if Trump does, it will be a sign of weakness.

But with all the other cabinet postings, poorly qualified or none existent individuals who will do Trump's bidding. The only one who will profit will be those that Trump appoints and himself. He will gut wrench everything else. And seems this is exactly what they are planning on doing. While laughing all the way to the bank.

Edit

Mexicio is saying that if Trump goes ahead with his tariff threat, it will cost a lot of US jobs, and Canada is thinking of ways to deal with the threat as well. So if Trump goes ahead with this, it will have an impact, and sales of cars in the US will also increase by a lot. So a real mess.

[Vertigo 7]

Thinking about the Musk crap a bit, I'm quite sure that he's going to get all of the government subsidies and tax cuts he could dream of to offset any costs tariffs will incur to his businesses. It's pretty well a given the 1%'rs are not going to be the ones that suffer under Darth hamburder's reich.

[matthewfarmery]

Pretty much spot on, my feeling as well. He and his billionaire palls will bleed America dry. Afterall, it will be the end consumer who will be footing the bill. not the ultras rich. And with Musk and others in charge, Americans have no idea the damage Hitler 2.0 will do.

[Observe]

Mexicio is saying that if Trump goes ahead with his tariff threat, it will cost a lot of US jobs, and Canada is thinking of ways to deal with the threat as well.

Every country has tariffs including Mexico and Canada according to their interests. The consequences are a balancing act.

The worst part of Trumps position is using tariffs to impose punishment. Trump says we have to punish Mexico for the influx of drugs that are killing American citizens. Mexico made an excellent counterpoint, by noting that the influx of American guns is killing Mexican citizens. Better to resolve these things by means other than tariffs. Illegal immigration is another problem where tariffs are not the answer.

[Vertigo 7]

Well thats what you voted for, so congratulations? Your leader is a moron.

[Observe]

Well thats what you voted for, so congratulations? Your leader is a moron.

I have already explained elsewhere that I detest Trump. It's just that I detested Biden even more and Harris some more on top of that. Choice is what Democracy is about. There is no reason for you to continuously relegate the opposition to "morons" or a "basket of deplorables" (as Hillary did). Is it not possible for you to recognize differences without resorting to childish insults?

[Vertigo 7]

You're right, I don't have to relegate the opposition as morons. I relegate morons as morons. Sorry if your overlord being a moron is a problem for you but you shoulda considered that before backing him.