Trump Presidency

[clakclak]

So Trump is backtracking on a key campaign promise to his lackeys.

President-elect Donald Trump told Time his presidency would not be a failure if he cannot bring the price of groceries down.

Said Trump: “It’s hard to bring things down once they’re up. You know, it’s very hard.”

LOL, ad for those that voted for him, thinking he could do everything on day one. He said many times, he would bring down prices, and his gullible base, brought every word of it. If anything, he will raise prices, not lower them. But only then will the gullible see the errors of their ways.

No, they won't. They'll go on Faux News and concoct a wild story blaming the democrats for all their woes and the MAGA morons will eat it right up.

I have a Russian neighbour (living in Germany), who is very obsessed with Russian propaganda. He is 100% convinced that the German gas price is now 20 times higher than it was before the war in Ukraine began. He pays gas in Germany. He can literally look at his bill and see the amount he is paying for gas, but he does not care. In his reality what the Russian telegram groups tell him is more real than the bills he pays. Doesn't matter to him that a 20 time increase would mean that he suddenly pays at least a four figure number for gas each month. He is still convinced that that is what happend even though it is incredibly easy to proof that is not what is happening. He has also convinced himself, that most Germans no longer have working toilets and sees any pile of dog poo as proof for his theory as he argues that it is in fact human faeces. Once again, he lives in Germany, in the middle of a decently sized city. Propaganda can be a scary thing.

[chew-ie]

@clakclak ...or internet for that matter. We witnessed this during the pandemic were people's brain was totally bloated and one brainfart came after another.

The combination of both is even more volatile...

[clakclak]

Anyway back on topic. It seems as if Trum's transition team is working to fill in as many high ranking positions with people who have coals alligned with Silicon valley. Apperently Elon Musk and his allies will have a far greater role in shaping the future American government than previously thought, to the point where it seems as if they are making most of the important staffing options that are below the ministry and Zar positions. The lines between the exceedingly rich, the companies they own and the government are getting blurred more and more.

[...]Inside the Trump transition team’s headquarters in West Palm Beach, Fla., the billionaire Marc Andreessen, a tech investor who decades ago founded one of the first popular internet browsers, has interviewed candidates for senior roles at the State Department, the Pentagon and the Department of Health and Human Services.

Jared Birchall, the head of Mr. Musk’s family office with no experience in foreign affairs, has interviewed a few candidates for jobs at the State Department. Mr. Birchall has been involved in advising the Trump transition team on space policy and artificial intelligence, helping to put together councils for A.I. development and crypto policy.

Shaun Maguire, another Musk friend, is now advising Mr. Trump on picks for the intelligence community. Mr. Maguire, a brash Caltech Ph.D. in physics who is an investor at Sequoia Capital, has been a staple of the Trump transition over the last month, including interviewing potential candidates for senior Defense Department jobs.

“The incoming Trump admin is working ~16 hour days 6 days per week,” Mr. Maguire tweeted last week. Mr. Musk replied simply with a correction: “7 days a week.” “Was trying to underestimate, but you’re obviously right,” Mr. Maguire said back.[...]

NY TImes: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/06/us/p ... alley.html

[Chips]

Aren't you answering what you have asked?

Not really, asking other people what they think is actually going to happen. Guardian and BBC articles about RFK already state he's unlikely to be able to do much.
Kennedy also said no preventing people from having shots either. So it's not like immunisation is out the door.

A lot gets said in the election runup - who doesn't remember "Lock her up!" - which went absolutely no-where.

my comment about CDC with some typos.
it's easy to connect the dots, if vaccines cause autism then why would we fund CDC research into vaccines. CDC is conspiring then

Except afaik the CDC don't do, or fund, vaccine research.

and about FDA, all I read was that the talk is about cutting and downsizing FDA. It's not about giving them more resources or money to deal with some of less than healthy foods, or with unregulated magic, like vitamins and homeopathy.

And if course no-one is talking about what gets people actually not healthy, no free healthcare, no public transport, low wages, punishable poverty, effectively a class system, etc, etc

People seem to think the worst of the worst will happen. They thought that last time too. Maybe it will. Oh well.

[fiksal]

. So it's not like immunisation is out the door.

A lot gets said in the election runup - who doesn't remember "Lock her up!" - which went absolutely no-where.

I am one of the folks who takes stuff literally until they are proven otherwise by counter actions.

So until then, this is the plan as stated

my comment about CDC with some typos.
it's easy to connect the dots, if vaccines cause autism then why would we fund CDC research into vaccines. CDC is conspiring then

Except afaik the CDC don't do, or fund, vaccine research.

phrasing could be better on my part.

how about "contributing"?

The CIVIE program has been established by the US CDC to work with the countries’ ministries of health to support the planning, execution, and evaluation of COVID-19 vaccination programs. A total of 55 countries have been supported by CIVIE, which includes 27% of the global population.

CIVIE has set 7 priority areas, including vaccine policy development, program planning, vaccine confidence and demand, data management and use, workforce development, vaccine safety, and evaluation.
...
For the expansion of seasonal influenza vaccination programs in low-to-middle income countries, CDC initiated the Partnership for Influenza Vaccine Introduction (PIVI) with the Task Force for Global Health (TFGH) and WHO in 2013. This combined initiative immensely helped develop invaluable skills, including policy development, microplanning, communication, and staff training, which in turn accelerated the distribution of COVID-19 vaccines.

People seem to think the worst of the worst will happen. They thought that last time too. Maybe it will. Oh well.

But it did happen, no? What people feared came true as I recall.

Child separation aka kidnapping?
Abortion?
January 6th?


each of these is a big deal in my book that is still not fully resolved or punished

is it not so in your book?

[Chips]

phrasing could be better on my part.

how about "contributing"?

So, to be clear. Not developing vaccines (vaccine research). Just doing the same as every other nation's health department.
What he may be able to do is ensure they don't license for use (is that FDA or CDC) new vaccines. Or try to.

But isn't America known for it's powerful lobbyists... and Trump is a "business man". Hence why media are skeptical anything will *really* happen.

But it did happen, no? What people feared came true as I recall.

Child separation aka kidnapping?
Abortion?
January 6th?


each of these is a big deal in my book that is still not fully resolved or punished

is it not so in your book?

All those "worst case" outcomes are definitely apparent in hindsight; because they happened. But they weren't people's fears as he took up the Presidency - with the exception of the child policy perhaps? I don't remember if they'd floated that idea to get people voting for him. Certainly not mentioned in the BBC look back at the campaign promises.

Not quite sure what my views on his policies has to do at all. I just read what appears to be people going straight to "we're going to be forced to drink raw milk, vaccines will be banned, health care will be gone, big pharma destroyed, 11 million deported..." - it's a lot to "worry" about.

I don't personally see the point. Maybe it helps that I'm not American, but worrying about something that hasn't happened (and may not) just seems odd.

Then again, I did install Twitter for a few days a couple of weeks back. It's amazing how people occupy their time with fear... allowing it to become all consuming - and spread/echo it.

[Vertigo 7]

Well, he showed us all he was a racist, xenophobic bigot and a sexual predator. People didn't listen, gave him a pass, said he's just talking. But his policies in his first term proved he is exactly who he acted like. He's said he's going to deport 5 million US citizens and try to end a constitutional right granting citizenship to people born here. He's said he's going to "tariff the hell" out of these other nations and just today admitted he can't guarantee consumer prices won't go up. When he says, and by extension the sycophants he appoints, that they're gonna do something, we would be fools not to believe him.

[fiksal]

I have a Russian neighbour (living in Germany), who is very obsessed with Russian propaganda. He is 100% convinced that the German gas price is now 20 times higher than it was before the war in Ukraine began. He pays gas in Germany. He can literally look at his bill and see the amount he is paying for gas, but he does not care. In his reality what the Russian telegram groups tell him is more real than the bills he pays. Doesn't matter to him that a 20 time increase would mean that he suddenly pays at least a four figure number for gas each month. He is still convinced that that is what happend even though it is incredibly easy to proof that is not what is happening. He has also convinced himself, that most Germans no longer have working toilets and sees any pile of dog poo as proof for his theory as he argues that it is in fact human faeces. Once again, he lives in Germany, in the middle of a decently sized city. Propaganda can be a scary thing.

I missed this earlier post. It's interesting how people are dumb on purpose.

I read an interesting thought awhile back, that the point, is not the truth, the point is, to force your point and have your ideology win over the enemy's. What's true is irrelevant. This was said many years ago somewhere in the Russian media sphere.

I think this explains your neighbour

So, to be clear. Not developing vaccines (vaccine research).

Not sure what are you driving to, specific phrasing?

Here's more

CISA
CDC's Clinical Immunization Safety Assessment (CISA) Project is a partnership between CDC and several medical centers that conduct clinical research on vaccine-related health risks in certain groups of people.

Just doing the same as every other nation's health department.
What he may be able to do is ensure they don't license for use (is that FDA or CDC) new vaccines. Or try to.

Of course, CDC does what any other nation's health department should do it. But their work is considered too controversial for the Republican party, as portrayed by Trump squad.

In a normal world we wouldnt even talk much about CDC.

Again, circling back to the very specific claim that is held by many Americans, and now those running the show, that (all) vaccines cause Autism.

But isn't America known for it's powerful lobbyists... and Trump is a "business man". Hence why media are skeptical anything will *really* happen.

Lobbyist goal is to make money, not to promote well being. They arent much of help to regular people.

All those "worst case" outcomes are definitely apparent in hindsight; because they happened. But they weren't people's fears as he took up the Presidency - with the exception of the child policy perhaps? I don't remember if they'd floated that idea to get people voting for him.

Subjective now isnt it?

To me that materialized what I was wondering about

His anti immigrant rhetoric - materialized in violence I was worried about. I couldnt imagine the kidnappings though.

His anti democracy rhetoric - meterialized in voter suppression, and 50+ attempts to overturn the election, and an actual mob storming Capitol. No I didnt expect or predict that, but it was my worry.

He made it known apparent that abortion might get challenged, by signaling the right people before the election. What was said then? - dont worry, - nothing will change with his Presidency, it'll be business as usual - abortion rights cant just go away. Odd that more people started to discuss it even. Even during hearings for the new Supreme Court justices. Was anyone surprised when it happened?

The wall didnt happen, but that was the most harmless and most expensive idea.

Trump ticks all the boxes, I dont specifically recall what we worried about him that didnt happen... war with North Korea?...

but worrying about something that hasn't happened (and may not) just seems odd.

Worrying about things that were said and promised, or hinted is always the right time. Because that's the only time you can do it. When it happens and you lost your chance to do something about it, to vote, it's too late already. It's an uphill battle from there, if there will be one at all.

The three examples I gave are only a few things that people talked about and worried. But not enough, for many reasons, they didnt worry about something that hasn't happened. All the while all the other people had counted on that.

Then again, I did install Twitter for a few days a couple of weeks back. It's amazing how people occupy their time with fear... allowing it to become all consuming - and spread/echo it.

Why would you go on right winger's farm

The point is not fear, the point must be action.

I have unique luck to be related to two good examples of what inaction brings. Trump is "my" president, and so is Putin.

[Vertigo 7]

And seriously, he's said he's going to deploy armed troops on US soil against US citizens. Who in their right mind wouldn't be fearful of that?

[fiksal]

to reply to both threads here,

about whether or not RFK and Trump will change about US or it'll be business as usual

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/rfk-jr-mit ... o-vaccine/

RFK advisors looking to withdraw a polio vaccine, was yet again reminded that RFK was not long ago spreading misinformation, Trump yet again mentioned vaccines and autism in the same reply.

It's not like this is a secret

[Vertigo 7]

Oh that's f'n brilliant. Let's reintroduce a virus that's been practically all but eliminated in the US thanks to vaccination. I wonder how many more genius ideas like that we're gonna see from these "excellent individuals"?

[Chips]

So, to be clear. Not developing vaccines (vaccine research).

Not sure what are you driving to, specific phrasing?

Here's more

CISA
CDC's Clinical Immunization Safety Assessment (CISA) Project is a partnership between CDC and several medical centers that conduct clinical research on vaccine-related health risks in certain groups of people.

Just doing the same as every other nation's health department.
What he may be able to do is ensure they don't license for use (is that FDA or CDC) new vaccines. Or try to.

Of course, CDC does what any other nation's health department should do it. But their work is considered too controversial for the Republican party, as portrayed by Trump squad.

The clarity is simple. It doesn't matter *what* RJK-whatever-his-name is says about vaccines. They'll still be developed. There's an entire world and a hell of a lot of money outside of the US - vaccines will continue to be developed. By the companies that create them. Which is not the CDC. It's pretty clear cut/closed case.

Worrying about things that were said and promised, or hinted is always the right time. Because that's the only time you can do it. When it happens and you lost your chance to do something about it, to vote, it's too late already. It's an uphill battle from there, if there will be one at all.

The three examples I gave are only a few things that people talked about and worried. But not enough, for many reasons, they didnt worry about something that hasn't happened. All the while all the other people had counted on that.

Fair enough, worry on. Worrying is *very* effective as we've seen. It achieved... what last time? You apparently worried and... (specifically, the point of the worrying is zero).

Then again, I did install Twitter for a few days a couple of weeks back. It's amazing how people occupy their time with fear... allowing it to become all consuming - and spread/echo it.

Why would you go on right winger's farm

The point is not fear, the point must be action.

I have unique luck to be related to two good examples of what inaction brings. Trump is "my" president, and so is Putin.

Honestly, it's not my issue to worry and it's not my place to try and shape what you worry about. Then again, that's not what I'm trying to do.

The main point is what's being said vs what's happening. Currently, it's a lot of "this MAY happen". Ok. If you've got nothing to do to change that, then back to what's the point of worrying. A *lot* of people's politics is reactive. Something *changes* first. Currently I see claims of "this will..." which it appears is "I worry that..." and absolutely nothing about it. The old term is "hand wringing" - and I'm questioning whether hand wringing has any point/outcome of use, other than raw hands. It doesn't stop anything happening, it just causes wrung hands.

There's nothing to be said other than "Carry on..." - I was questioning both sides (t'other said nothing about how they think RJK is going to allay *their* fears).

I think the TL;DR is the apparent faux "OMG THIS COULD HAPPEN". Yep.

and... yeah, nothing.

Now if it turns out that outside of here, you're campaigning, canvassing, taking part - then kudos; hope there's success because lets be honest, the Orange One isn't quite what most of the people *here* have in mind when we think of good Governance. Nothing to argue on that point, I think he's absolutely a net negative to the US and the world.

[fiksal]

The clarity is simple. It doesn't matter *what* RJK-whatever-his-name is says about vaccines. They'll still be developed. There's an entire world and a hell of a lot of money outside of the US - vaccines will continue to be developed. By the companies that create them. Which is not the CDC. It's pretty clear cut/closed case.

My simple point is that it makes no difference to an American without a vaccine what the rest of the world can do. We want to keep our vaccines

CDC plays important part in US, which can't be handwaved. I am losing what is your argument against CDC at this point, so moving on.

Fair enough, worry on. Worrying is *very* effective as we've seen. It achieved... what last time? You apparently worried and... (specifically, the point of the worrying is zero).

What I achieved personally?
I vote in every election, every result is in part due to my small part.

When I can, I donate to politicians, and to Ukraine.

What have the "worry" have achieved in general? To name a few randomly;

Trump's first election loss.
Immediate pro choice movements in various States.
Putin being stuck in Ukraine.

What has apathy and not worrying has achieved?

Putin and Trump for one.
Abortions being illegal in US.
Putin's bloody war.
Trump's kidnapping of children. Etc

Anyways

[matthewfarmery]

ABC settled a lawsuit that was brought against them by Trump, even though ABC was in the right. As one person on that station only quoted what the Judge said in the E Carroll case. So the network should have stood up to Trump. But now, it seems that Trump and his allies are planning on brining more lawsuits against networks over unfavourable coverage. I expect most networks will wind up paying a huge bill now. And may cost some their broadcasting rights? But this is a bad sign. And more of a dictatorship move then anything. Another way to control the minds of Americans.

[matthewfarmery]

Why Im I not surprised.

CNN: “The sabotaging of Johnson’s funding initiative triggered shock and confusion on Capitol Hill. But for many of Trump’s supporters and boosters in the conservative media who are anticipating massive cuts to federal programs, the mayhem is the point. Even if the impasse leads to a damaging government shutdown, that may represent progress for some since the government itself is viewed with disdain on the populist right. And by taking aim at the Washington status quo even before he takes the oath of office, Trump is doing exactly what he said he’d do on the campaign trail.”

“But the sudden imbroglio also highlighted one of the key issues facing Trump in his second term: If he wants to pass his tax cuts, push through his immigration overhauls, defend the country and leave a meaningful legacy, he will have to find some way to govern – even if that draws him into conflict with base voters and MAGA ideologues who seem happy to burn government to the ground.”

Chaos and confusion. Its what Trump and Musk is doing, even though it still a short while before that fascist traitor takes office. He doing everything to sow seeds of confusion and doubt into the mix. Trump won't govern. he just wants to dictate. And it's going to get very much worse.

Edit

It seems from what I'm reading, this could lead to a government shutdown. If that happens, it will be even more chaos, and Trump is only interested in rasing the debt ceiling. After that, he can push through all that BS with project 2025, and tax cuts. and other cuts. Which will only raise the nations debt by a lot.

I feel sorry for the federal workers. They are going to be hit hard. But sadly, America voted for this fascist / Musk. And Musk should not be anywhere near government, But this is his handiwork as well. Now, America needs to sallow that bitter pill. And if there is a government shutdown, then Trump won't be president. So either he concedes, or he allows this chaos to continue.

[Observe]

It seems from what I'm reading, this could lead to a government shutdown.

Quite likely, but not the end of the world. There have been 21 government shutdowns since 1976, so not unprecedented.

Republicans are asking for a "clean bill". A Continuing Resolution (CR) bill should not contain new spending. It should only continue funding existing expenses. Attaching things like a raise for members of Congress, should be negotiated separately. If all the unnecessary 'riders' were stripped from it, the 1500-page bill could probably be reduced to about 20 pages.

Apparently, there are still some members of Congress who are not aware that this country is on its way to bankruptcy. Back to the drawing board for them, until they get the message, or until they are voted out.

[matthewfarmery]

I am aware that America has had many shutdowns, but this is Musk's doing. He is fully responsible for the chaos. Also, Mike johnson's job as House speaker is also probably on the line. With the republicans holding a narrow lead in the house, selecting another speaker could also add to the chaos, Also, Trump won't be officially president, until both matters are resolved.

It's going to be interesting what happens next? Will Trump get rid of Musk? and will Musk go quietly in the night? Still Americans voted for this, So they are going to have to live with the chaos. And all this before Trump takes office. Which gives people a prelude to what his madness will entail. I promise you this, it will get way worse. As long as Musk has a government Job, he will try and steal the limelight from Trump. Those two will come to blows, soon.

Donald Trump told ABC News there won’t be a spending bill “unless the debt ceiling is done with.”

Said Trump: “If we don’t get it, then we’re going to have a shutdown, but it’ll be a Biden shutdown, because shutdowns only inure to the person who’s president.”

Trump wants the ending of the debt ceiling, so he can push through his BS. Trying to push the government shutdown on Biden won't work. Like I said, this is Fully on Trump's / Musk's shoulders. Trump is just trying to make Biden look bad. But this is from someone who is the king of debt.

[Observe]

As long as Musk has a government Job...

Musk does NOT have a government job. He is an advisor to Trump. All Presidents have their close circle of advisors who are not officially in the government.

Trump wants the ending of the debt ceiling.

Because of past irresponsible spending, the debt ceiling has to be raised. There is little choice. If it isn't raised soon, there will be severe national and international consequences.

As for eliminating the ceiling, there is an argument that the 14th Amendment to the constitution prohibits having a ceiling to begin with. Be that as it may, the idea would be to raise the ceiling to prevent defaulting on the national debt, followed by cost reductions to bring the debt back down to zero. The cost reduction part is where Musk is advising.

[Chips]

As for eliminating the ceiling, there is an argument that the 14th Amendment to the constitution prohibits having a ceiling to begin with. Be that as it may, the idea would be to raise the ceiling to prevent defaulting on the national debt, followed by cost reductions to bring the debt back down to zero. The cost reduction part is where Musk is advising.

To bring a debt down they'd need a surplus; what's the current deficit? $1.9 trillion apparently.

A quick AI driven Google says the last time the US ran a surplus (necessary to reduce a debt) was 2000-2001. Specifically, it said 1998 was the first time there was a surplus since 1969, followed by 2000 and 2001.
I've NO idea how reliable, or where the info, originates from. The lack of willpower to spend any effort checking is... epic.

So the debt ceiling is a yearly affair. Well, from 1970-1998 and from 2001-2024 at least. Or 3 years in the past 50 weren't rises... is the easy way to say it.

[matthewfarmery]

As long as Musk has a government Job...

Musk does NOT have a government job. He is an advisor to Trump. All Presidents have their close circle of advisors who are not officially in the government.

Trump wants the ending of the debt ceiling.

Because of past irresponsible spending, the debt ceiling has to be raised. There is little choice. If it isn't raised soon, there will be severe national and international consequences.

As for eliminating the ceiling, there is an argument that the 14th Amendment to the constitution prohibits having a ceiling to begin with. Be that as it may, the idea would be to raise the ceiling to prevent defaulting on the national debt, followed by cost reductions to bring the debt back down to zero. The cost reduction part is where Musk is advising.

Yet Musk is pulling a lot of power, he is barking at the gop to do one thing, while Trump is trying to tell them to do anoother. Who iis the puppet and who is the puppet master? Musk isn't just an advisor, he has teeth and is willing to use them. He is the one who just derailed the spending bill. So yes, I say, Musk is having a whale of a time having power that he should not have.