Russia-Ukraine War

[Chips]

Thousands of North Koreans are being sent to work in slave-like conditions in Russia to fill a huge labour shortage exacerbated by Russia's ongoing invasion of Ukraine, the BBC has learned.

Moscow has repeatedly turned to Pyongyang to help it fight the war, using its missiles, artillery shells and its soldiers.

Now, with many of Russia's men either killed or tied up fighting - or having fled the country - South Korean intelligence officials have told the BBC that Moscow is increasingly relying on North Korean labourers.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2077gwjlvxo

It isn't that surprising, given how both countries treat their people these days... (well, North Korea always treated it's people horrifically).

[fiksal]

which is increasingly interesting


we often talk about racism in US, and skip over that it exists elsewhere. In this case, in Russia, which is extra relevant here since Russians think of North Korean (and anyone who looks Asian), as less than people. Add to the mix the State idealogy of Z fascists which think they are the superior people over everyone. And yes, over Americans included.


This thought returns me to "land swapping" idea. I am somewhat unsure what would Putin say if Trump would offer Alaska. Not like he'd need an approval from Congress. Putin might pause his war before going to Baltic countries. So that would be a win for Trump and for peace?

[Observe]

I don't get the concept of land swapping. What does Ukraine have to offer? Zelensky says that Ukraine won't "gift" Russia with land, because Ukraine's Constitution prohibits it. How can Ukraine gift something that's already been taken? Their Constitution isn't worth the paper its printed on, unless they have the power to uphold it - which obviously they don't.

I'm sort of expecting the result of this meeting on Friday, will be Trump once again telling Zelensky that he doesn't have any cards in the game.

[chew-ie]

I like the idea of Trump handing over Alaska. Should show the last bonehead in the US what Trump is and what he is not.

[mr.WHO]

Yep, out of all possible places he could pick, he picked land which Russia claim it's theirs.

Normally such places are picked to sign humiliating surrender, except it looks like it's US who's surrendering.

[Chips]

I don't get the concept of land swapping. What does Ukraine have to offer? Zelensky says that Ukraine won't "gift" Russia with land, because Ukraine's Constitution prohibits it. How can Ukraine gift something that's already been taken? Their Constitution isn't worth the paper its printed on, unless they have the power to uphold it - which obviously they don't.

I'm sort of expecting the result of this meeting on Friday, will be Trump once again telling Zelensky that he doesn't have any cards in the game.

I think this perhaps highlights a lack of understanding or fuller reading around media headlines / opinions voiced by commentators?

Zelensky says that Ukraine won't "gift" Russia with land, because Ukraine's Constitution prohibits it. How can Ukraine gift something that's already been taken?

The "gift" is in relation to the demand Russia is expected to make in any serious attempt to get peace; that Ukraine gives up territory that the Ukraine *does* control.

So that's the rest of the Donbass area; the non-Russian held areas of Donetsk Oblast. It's expected Russia is going to say "no ceasefire unless we get the 30% of Donetsk Oblast we don't hold already", and the swap being "and we may give back territory around as a sweetener... " (unlikely) - but unless Trump is actually willing to carry out his threats, Russia's just stalling as usual. Trump's the one talking about swapsies.

Trump's repeatedly showing to be all talk and absolutely zero trousers when it comes to strong personalities he can't bully; so about all we expect is Trump will actually talk about what the US can gain from this circumstance (mineral rights, rebuild money) in return for Russia to get the Donbass, Crimea, and probably the land corridor, lifted sanctions, promises US pulls back it's forces from Europe, won't help out in European theatre, forbids sales of munitions to Ukraine and so on. The list could be endless.

Trump's "USA NUMBER 1" and likely why he doesn't want Zelensky there. It's not about what's best for Ukraine... it's about what's going to be best for Trump/USA. If Russia can make some attractive sounding "deal" for US benefit, then Ukraine's going to be bullied into accepting it and there may be a raft of conditions attached to diminish European "strength".

So now we get to wait and see if Trump *can* actually make deals, or, even stand up (obviously, from the above, you can tell I have a very very negative view of Trump - so hopefully he can surprise. I'm literally expecting the worst though )

[fiksal]

That's correct, Russia is officially demanding the land that isn't under Russian army control, plus two large cities, like Odessa.

And as a broken record that I am I will once again repeat that Russia never changed its terms in any last negotiations. In the last one with Rubio they have concluded that USA now sees the war from "their perspective".

So the demands are:
- area west of Donbass
- cities of Odessa, Kherson
- demilitarization
- "denazification" which we can read as repressions
- change of government with pro Kremlin one. Which you can read as - appointed.
- dictate to EU to never admit Ukraine
- dictate/veto in NATO to never admit Ukraine. Even if all members vote for it

That's the main stuff I can recall.

Annexing Baltics, Finland, Poland will be asked later I think, not now
-

[fiksal]

well, nothing burger.

and you know what I mean exactly

[mr.WHO]

In this situation nothing burger is best case scenario - had zero expectation on peace deal, but there could be many scenarios much much worse.

[chew-ie]

It was still a stupid move to give russia a place on the international parcour again to walz through (and walz through they did - check for the CCCP shirt action). Now they feel "strong" again and have some nice material for their propaganda.

Stupid gonk(s) never learn...

[mr.WHO]

It was still a stupid move to give russia a place on the international parcour again to walz through (and walz through they did - check for the CCCP shirt action). Now they feel "strong" again and have some nice material for their propaganda.

Stupid gonk(s) never learn...

At first, I though the same, but they met in military base, on Alaska - basically nowhere at the edge of the world like they are bunch of dangerous terrorist.
This would be much more useful to Russian propagands, if it would be somewhere else, like Dubay, Ankhara or New Delhi.

Out of all thing, at least they manage not to f*ck this up.

[fiksal]

good summary by Zelensky:

If Moscow lacks "the will to carry out a simple order to stop the strikes, it may take a lot of effort to get Russia to have the will to implement (something) far greater — peaceful coexistence with its neighbours for decades," he said on social media.

taken from
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2025/08/ ... ump-a90256


also to no one's surprise, yet again we see who Trump is allied with

During his call with Zelensky and European leaders, Trump expressed support for Putin’s proposal to take full control of two eastern Ukrainian regions that Russia largely controls in exchange for freezing the frontline in two other areas, an official briefed on the talks told AFP.

Putin "de facto demands that Ukraine leave Donbas," an area consisting of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions in eastern Ukraine, the source said.

In exchange, Russian forces would halt their offensive in the Kherson and Zaporizhzhia regions in southern Ukraine, where the main cities are still under Ukrainian control.

Russia claimed in September 2022 to have annexed all four Ukrainian regions, even though its troops still do not fully control any of them.

"The Ukrainian president refused to leave Donbas," the source said.

Trump notably also said the United States was prepared to provide Ukraine security guarantees, an assurance Merz hailed as "significant progress."

But there was a scathing assessment of the summit outcome from the European Union's top diplomat, Kaja Kallas, who accused Putin of seeking to "drag out negotiations" with no commitment to end the bloodshed.

"The harsh reality is that Russia has no intention of ending this war any time soon," Kallas said

the only security guarantees on the planet can be provided by the NATO membership. There are no other defense agreements on that scale

[Observe]

The only security guarantees on the planet can be provided by the NATO membership. There are no other defense agreements on that scale

That's not going to happen. NATO cannot consider or guarantee anything as long as Ukraine is at war. Even if the war ends and Ukraine where somehow to manage correcting some of its internal corruption issues, membership would still be years away.

NATO members would have to agree to induct Ukraine. Currently, there is no unanimous consensus among members to bring Ukraine into the fold. That means, there will have to be some other kind of security arrangements put in place that doesn't involve NATO directly.

[fiksal]

plus how do NATO members go around the veto vote from Russia? Seems impossible

[Observe]

plus how do NATO members go around the veto vote from Russia? Seems impossible

NATO membership is impossible. However, special envoy Steve Witkoff says that Putin has agreed to security guarantees for Ukraine.

We got to an agreement (from Putin) that the United States and other European nations could effectively offer Article 5-like language to cover a security guarantee...Putin staunchly opposes Ukraine joining Nato, and Witkoff says this arrangement could be an alternative if "the Ukrainians could live with that".

Hopefully, Ukraine will accept the reality and acquiesce to a non-NATO solution. Ukraine will also have to go along with the loss of land that Russia has taken. This has been obvious for a very long time and is as good as it is going to get.

[Alan Phipps]

plus how do NATO members go around the veto vote from Russia? Seems impossible

Are you perhaps thinking of the UN rather than NATO there? If anyone is likely to veto certain NATO options then it could be the USA at the moment. Also of course any NATO members with internal Russian sympathies or fears about Russian response impacts could affect NATO planning and decisions.

[fiksal]

plus how do NATO members go around the veto vote from Russia? Seems impossible

Are you perhaps thinking of the UN rather than NATO there? If anyone is likely to veto certain NATO options then it could be the USA at the moment. Also of course any NATO members with internal Russian sympathies or fears about Russian response impacts could affect NATO planning and decisions.

Mr Alan, I think you missed my sarcasm)

NATO members appear to treat Russia as a member of NATO and answer to its whims. A powerful win for Russia

[Alan Phipps]

Heh, NATO really doesn't need added sarcasm as it has enough difficulties and problems already.

[fiksal]

It's hard when its members are thinking about attacking each other.

NATO membership is impossible. However, special envoy Steve Witkoff says that Putin has agreed to security guarantees for Ukraine.

Of course NATO membership is impossible, why would Russia ever allow NATO do that? NATO has no power over this matter.

So on another matter,
why not ask the horse's mouth instead?

The word "demilitarization" means no army in Ukraine. That's what Russia agreed to.

Does that strike you as what Witkoff said as extremely naive? Maybe no one tells him anything

[Observe]

The word "demilitarization" means no army in Ukraine. That's what Russia agreed to.

Yea, that's not going to happen. No one will accept demilitarization of Ukraine. Russia will have to back down on that one.