Why Terran ships are so slow?

[AdrianWir]

Argon ships are 2 times faster

With Terran engines or Argon engines? I'm asking because maybe I haven't watched some nice movies and missed something? Or maybe you tested? If not, this comparison does not add anything. You still don't know if it's the fault of the engines or the ships and how they will perform with other engines.

[dholmstr]

And again, just because the player can use everything on everything DOESN'T mean that factions will crossfit anything.

[BlackRain]

By the same principle, you can insert Split engines into Terran ships and create a fast, strong and well-shielded vessel. Maybe not as fast as Split ships, but fast enough. And as I wrote, until you check the Terran ships with other engines, or other ships with Terran engines, you will not find out if it is the fault of the ships or the engines.

I don't like Terran. They are arrogant and they are hypocrites. But just because they are now well-balanced, Chcę latać na ich statkach. And I don't see them as inferior. But my fighting style is not based on speed. I wonder how a Protectorate or Pioneer heavy fighter will do against the Ares. And I am glad that the ships from the new DCL do not exceed the ships of the other races in everything.

I understand, this is my opinion. I think the Terran ships fit well into the universe. Fast and well-armed Split ships, well-armed and well-shielded Terran ships. Now only the Boron ships with good shields and speed, but weaker weapons are missing. For that we have to wait for Sushi DCL.

Argon ships are 2 times faster but have the same shields and weapons. Terran ships are inferrior to argon ships - they are 2 times slower.

How do you know this? The DLC isn't even out yet. You know the exact amount of shields and weapons each terran ship has? You know the exact speed of every ship with maximum engines? How do you know how maneuverable or agile their engines are in a fight? Just curious where you are getting the info. There is no way that the Terran ships are so weak that they would be weaker than every other faction. This would affect the economy and faction wars too much. You sound very extreme in your opinion about this.

[soladept]

By the same principle, you can insert Split engines into Terran ships and create a fast, strong and well-shielded vessel. Maybe not as fast as Split ships, but fast enough. And as I wrote, until you check the Terran ships with other engines, or other ships with Terran engines, you will not find out if it is the fault of the ships or the engines.

I don't like Terran. They are arrogant and they are hypocrites. But just because they are now well-balanced, Chcę latać na ich statkach. And I don't see them as inferior. But my fighting style is not based on speed. I wonder how a Protectorate or Pioneer heavy fighter will do against the Ares. And I am glad that the ships from the new DCL do not exceed the ships of the other races in everything.

I understand, this is my opinion. I think the Terran ships fit well into the universe. Fast and well-armed Split ships, well-armed and well-shielded Terran ships. Now only the Boron ships with good shields and speed, but weaker weapons are missing. For that we have to wait for Sushi DCL.

Argon ships are 2 times faster but have the same shields and weapons. Terran ships are inferrior to argon ships - they are 2 times slower.

How do you know this? The DLC isn't even out yet. You know the exact amount of shields and weapons each terran ship has? You know the exact speed of every ship with maximum engines? How do you know how maneuverable or agile their engines are in a fight? Just curious where you are getting the info. There is no way that the Terran ships are so weak that they would be weaker than every other faction. This would affect the economy and faction wars too much. You sound very extreme in your opinion about this.

There has been streamers with early preview access of COH content, this isnt even new news now, its been like this for over ten days.

[BlackRain]

Argon ships are 2 times faster but have the same shields and weapons. Terran ships are inferrior to argon ships - they are 2 times slower.

How do you know this? The DLC isn't even out yet. You know the exact amount of shields and weapons each terran ship has? You know the exact speed of every ship with maximum engines? How do you know how maneuverable or agile their engines are in a fight? Just curious where you are getting the info. There is no way that the Terran ships are so weak that they would be weaker than every other faction. This would affect the economy and faction wars too much. You sound very extreme in your opinion about this.

There has been streamers with early preview access of COH content, this isnt even new news now, its been like this for over ten days.

So it mentions all the info about the stats and how they function in game? It shows them being inferior to Argon ships, etc.? I haven't seen any of these videos.

[tomchk]

So it mentions all the info about the stats and how they function in game? It shows them being inferior to Argon ships, etc.? I haven't seen any of these videos.

If the folks involved in some of the best mods for X games aren't worried, I'm hoping it will not be so bad. At least some of the smaller ships are fast!

[BlackRain]

So it mentions all the info about the stats and how they function in game? It shows them being inferior to Argon ships, etc.? I haven't seen any of these videos.

If the folks involved in some of the best mods for X games aren't worried, I'm hoping it will not be so bad. At least some of the smaller ships are fast!

I just looked through the small ships and I am not getting the hate on the terran ships. At least for the S ships. I haven't gone through the M, L, or XL ships yet. I was comparing them with the Argon ships.

Let's take the Kalis and the Eclipse

Eclipse hull of 4000, shielding of 2,822, recharge of 438, speed of 226 (with combat mk3), 4 guns,
Kalis hull of 3,300 shielding of 5,928, recharge of 968, speed of 198, 2 guns (Terran guns look like they are better than argon but I didn't see the numbers)

Terran ships look much more maneuverable/agile in battle. Speed shouldn't have too much of an advantage here. Far greater shielding, double the recharge rate too. The speed difference is negligible in my opinion. Honestly, I would choose the Terran ship in this situation. Maybe the faster ship could gain some distance, but it would have to come in and shoot eventually while the Terran fighter could move around in a limited space much more easily.

As for the lighter fighters, the Terran light fighters are much faster than the argon ones from what I saw.

[Slashman]

I just looked through the small ships and I am not getting the hate on the terran ships. At least for the S ships. I haven't gone through the M, L, or XL ships yet. I was comparing them with the Argon ships.

Let's take the Kalis and the Eclipse

Eclipse hull of 4000, shielding of 2,822, recharge of 438, speed of 226 (with combat mk3), 4 guns,
Kalis hull of 3,300 shielding of 5,928, recharge of 968, speed of 198, 2 guns (Terran guns look like they are better than argon but I didn't see the numbers)

Terran ships look much more maneuverable/agile in battle. Speed shouldn't have too much of an advantage here. Far greater shielding, double the recharge rate too. The speed difference is negligible in my opinion. Honestly, I would choose the Terran ship in this situation. Maybe the faster ship could gain some distance, but it would have to come in and shoot eventually while the Terran fighter could move around in a limited space much more easily.

As for the lighter fighters, the Terran light fighters are much faster than the argon ones from what I saw.

Dude, why are you letting logic and reason get in the way of good old fashioned ranting before the expansion even comes out?

[grapedog]

To be fair, for M size mining and freight ships, speed is king, especially with the changes to mining and the kha'ak. Before you could make a choice... your average bad guy top speed was the minotaur raider at like ~310kms. You could sacrifice cargo space for speed if you didn't want to assign each individual ship an escort. Now you have pirates running around in dragon raiders, like 770kms or so... and you have kha'ak zipping around at like 500kms.

The choice now is to die quickly, die slowly, assign each ship a small group of fighters, or absolutely litter the map with squads of quick reaction forces, who are often not in the right place anyhow because your miners are 40km off the ecliptic.

If terran ships are slow, they'll be nothing but fodder ultimately.

[BlackRain]

To be fair, for M size mining and freight ships, speed is king, especially with the changes to mining and the kha'ak. Before you could make a choice... your average bad guy top speed was the minotaur raider at like ~310kms. You could sacrifice cargo space for speed if you didn't want to assign each individual ship an escort. Now you have pirates running around in dragon raiders, like 770kms or so... and you have kha'ak zipping around at like 500kms.

The choice now is to die quickly, die slowly, assign each ship a small group of fighters, or absolutely litter the map with squads of quick reaction forces, who are often not in the right place anyhow because your miners are 40km off the ecliptic.

If terran ships are slow, they'll be nothing but fodder ultimately.

Sounds like nothing more than a hypothetical. There most likely won't be any issue with any of those factions in Terran space, if you go elsewhere then you should be prepared. Sounds like a very small issue to me. There might be other, new threats, in Terran space (like the Yaki), but I doubt you will see Khaak or pirates in dragon raiders. If you are talking about in other places, well nothing to stop you from having a plan. Either use different miners in other places (diversify if you need to) or better protect them. Sorry, but I think this is just nitpicking to find complaints.

[SmarterThanAll]

Poor and ill-informed attempt at pedantry. Aldrin was reunited with the Terran faction in TC and by AP its just like any other Terran system.

Secondly, both the Springy and the Spitfyre are classified as Terran officially by Egosoft.

https://www.egosoft.com:8444/confluence ... /X3WIKI/M3
https://www.egosoft.com:8444/confluence ... /X3WIKI/M6

They even say "welcome to this Terran station!" when you dock there. Just try shooting at Aldrin stations and you can explain to the responding Terran fleet "but officer, I thought they are not Terran!" lmao.

Clinging to limited engine mechanics, aren't we?
Sorry, but Aldrin are not Terran. Faction-wise. Look at the screenshot.
The fact that Aldrin reused Terran sound files for standard welcome messages proves nothing.
Plus, in the "Project Genesis" Terran gamestart the PC explicitly says Aldrin was separated from the Sol. So, just admit, without Aldrin and their custom technology (they didn't even use standard Terran weapons, being limited to inferior "prototype" variants) Terran ships are just average.

Are the Valhalla, Vidar, Vali, Skirnir, Thor, Fenrir were "average"? They were the best ships in the game. And the Aldrin ships were the most fun. I dont know if Aldrin is Terrans now or not - but they were terrans for quite some time. This is enough to take over engine technology from them. We are talking of the most technological advanced race in the game. They are no longer isolated. They got acquainted with ships of other races and their characteristics. They could understand the shortcomings of their technology compared to ships of other races. And being the most developed of all, they would definitely be able to eliminate the shortcomings. This is understandable even for a modern person in 2021. But for some reason, people of the future do not think about such things? Are they all stupefied there or what? The Terran Large freighter has the speed of 48/1660 - this is slower than I and K!!! What the hell is this? How the Okinawa suposed to survive in a collision with Xenons? How should she run away? The Xenons are "THAT" the most enemy of the Terrans. And the Terans have made the most defenseless ship - the Okinawa, slower than the slowest Xenon attack ships - it cant fight - it cant run - it just dies. "Ingenious" design solution of the most advanced civilization, if you ask me.

The Terrans have an isolated and closed economy the Okinawa will hardly if EVER leave Sol thus never needing to encounter the situation you are suggesting. Terran Space is tucked away and safe from nearly all if not all external threats. I've seen many previews and the Terrans have MASSIVE fleets I'm talking MASSIVE fleeting guarding Sol and the other side of the Sol gate if the Terrans do their job and the Okinawa stays in Sol as it should then the Okinawa should never have to run from anything let alone Xenon capital ships.

[SmarterThanAll]

To be fair, for M size mining and freight ships, speed is king, especially with the changes to mining and the kha'ak. Before you could make a choice... your average bad guy top speed was the minotaur raider at like ~310kms. You could sacrifice cargo space for speed if you didn't want to assign each individual ship an escort. Now you have pirates running around in dragon raiders, like 770kms or so... and you have kha'ak zipping around at like 500kms.

The choice now is to die quickly, die slowly, assign each ship a small group of fighters, or absolutely litter the map with squads of quick reaction forces, who are often not in the right place anyhow because your miners are 40km off the ecliptic.

If terran ships are slow, they'll be nothing but fodder ultimately.

What aren't you understanding exactly? Terran space is tucked away and peaceful it's basically a paradise there's next to nothing to bother them in Sol. Sure if you put Terrans ships in the middle of the rest of the galaxy they stick out but they were obviously designed with Sol in mind. The Terrans have 13 sectors all back to back and tucked away from the rest of the galaxy with their nice and isolated economy. They exist completely independently of everyone else and thus their ships are designed without pirates in mind. That's not something they have to worry about usually

[grapedog]

To be fair, for M size mining and freight ships, speed is king, especially with the changes to mining and the kha'ak. Before you could make a choice... your average bad guy top speed was the minotaur raider at like ~310kms. You could sacrifice cargo space for speed if you didn't want to assign each individual ship an escort. Now you have pirates running around in dragon raiders, like 770kms or so... and you have kha'ak zipping around at like 500kms.

The choice now is to die quickly, die slowly, assign each ship a small group of fighters, or absolutely litter the map with squads of quick reaction forces, who are often not in the right place anyhow because your miners are 40km off the ecliptic.

If terran ships are slow, they'll be nothing but fodder ultimately.

What aren't you understanding exactly? Terran space is tucked away and peaceful it's basically a paradise there's next to nothing to bother them in Sol. Sure if you put Terrans ships in the middle of the rest of the galaxy they stick out but they were obviously designed with Sol in mind. The Terrans have 13 sectors all back to back and tucked away from the rest of the galaxy with their nice and isolated economy. They exist completely independently of everyone else and thus their ships are designed without pirates in mind. That's not something they have to worry about usually

Thanks so much for helping me understand! Capitol really!

That's great for them then! I suppose ill never see a single one of their ships outside the Sol system. They won't have designs on expanding outside Sol either, which is smart.

[chew-ie]

[..] I suppose ill never see a single one of their ships outside the Sol system. They won't have designs on expanding outside Sol either, which is smart.

That's the thing - Terrans have enough reasons not to leave their cosy home. (#TheyBombedOurThorus)
It's mostly the players who want to use the terran ships to wreak havoc in the commonwealth sectors und thus want the perfect ship stats.

[mr.WHO]

you don't really need to be fast in X-universe - if you have firepower and resilence, you just blockade the sector entry points and wait for weaker enemy to come to you.
Those 700 km/s won't save you from Terran beams (most dammage beam) and Terran pulse (fastest bullet).
Not to mention general no-fly zone than Asgard battleship project.

When you need to move Terran, simply use travel drive.
When you need high speed interceptor, there is still Katana.

Terrans seems to be ideal blockade faction.

[SmarterThanAll]

To be fair, for M size mining and freight ships, speed is king, especially with the changes to mining and the kha'ak. Before you could make a choice... your average bad guy top speed was the minotaur raider at like ~310kms. You could sacrifice cargo space for speed if you didn't want to assign each individual ship an escort. Now you have pirates running around in dragon raiders, like 770kms or so... and you have kha'ak zipping around at like 500kms.

The choice now is to die quickly, die slowly, assign each ship a small group of fighters, or absolutely litter the map with squads of quick reaction forces, who are often not in the right place anyhow because your miners are 40km off the ecliptic.

If terran ships are slow, they'll be nothing but fodder ultimately.

What aren't you understanding exactly? Terran space is tucked away and peaceful it's basically a paradise there's next to nothing to bother them in Sol. Sure if you put Terrans ships in the middle of the rest of the galaxy they stick out but they were obviously designed with Sol in mind. The Terrans have 13 sectors all back to back and tucked away from the rest of the galaxy with their nice and isolated economy. They exist completely independently of everyone else and thus their ships are designed without pirates in mind. That's not something they have to worry about usually

Thanks so much for helping me understand! Capitol really!

That's great for them then! I suppose ill never see a single one of their ships outside the Sol system. They won't have designs on expanding outside Sol either, which is smart.

I've seen at least a dozen hours of preview footage and I've only ever seen them expand immediately and very aggressively into Getsu Fune and by very aggressively I mean within minutes they've already invaded Getsu Fune where I've seen them build several defense stations have like 2 or 3 carriers roaming about with half a dozen or more destroyers patrolling around. Which makes sense they want to control and protect all gates leading into Sol. Now I'm sure the Antigone will have a problem with that but I don't think the Terrans care in the slightest but that's the most I've seen them expand so far.

[Imperial Good]

I've seen at least a dozen hours of preview footage and I've only ever seen them expand immediately and very aggressively into Getsu Fune where I've seen them build several defense stations have like 2 or 3 carriers roaming about with half a dozen or more destroyers patrolling around. Which makes sense they want to control and protect all gates leading into Sol. Now I'm sure the Antigone will have a problem with that but I don't think the Terrans care in the slightest but that's the most I've seen them expand so far.

The Terrans are technically not at war with everyone. They just strongly dislike them. As such ANT should not really care much about any Terran defence platforms near them.

[AsadullinIF]

And again, just because the player can use everything on everything DOESN'T mean that factions will crossfit anything.

It does not matter. I dont want to superior civilization barebone ships were weaker than barbaric ships. If it doesnt matter for AI, but it DOES for me. I cant enjoy of inferior ships. I want the barebone ships of the Terans were at least equal in their strenght with commonwealth ships. I dont want weak ships and strong components. Because it means ditch the garbage ships - get the good components. And i dont want the most advanced race ships be that way. They are good-looking - one of the best looking in the game (some of them). I want to get some fun from the ships. Not from the boring components.

[grapedog]

As a side question, aren't the borons technically the oldest and most advanced race, aside from the elders themselves.

[AsadullinIF]

Guys. Again. It is a GAME. With a BALANCE. Game. Okinawa - 2 times slower then other commonwealth L cargo ships and has 2(!!) times smaller cargospace. What does it mean? It mean than the Player will n-e-v-e-r buy this ship in his game. The player would never even look in its direction. He will not need it. It's garbage. What the point in modeling this ship in the first place? Egosoft artist modelled this ship for the player to PLAY and to ENJOY. All of his work was for NOTHING. Beatuiful. Gorgeus. Absolutely garbage on the stats side. Useless. the Okinawa is the TITLE ship for the expancion! It is THAT good-looking! You don't feel sorry for the artist? Stop justifying it with some unique terrans ideal economy. It's a game. Computer game. Computer games have rules. There is game design. There is a balance. And these rules say - if a ship is inferior to an analogue, then no one needs it. Ever. The main character in the game is not Terrans with theis super-duper-efficient-economy and super slow inferior ships. Not Paranids. The main character in the game is the Player. If the ship is garbage - than player do not need that ship. Than all the work on this ship was for nothing. It is okey for the ships to be slow. But you need to give them another advantage aside the components, that are available to ALL races, to justify the loss of speed.