Why Terran ships are so slow?

[Alkeena]

Whats the travel mode charge time and ramp up time on the L and XL engines? Also, what is the boost 'attack' on the L and XL? If they have much higher attack speed for boost is it possible that capitals on terran engines boosting might actually achieve something?

• Small mk 3
• Medium mk 3
• Large mk 1
• Extra Large mk 1

Edit: Updated tables to only reflect player race engines.

[Alkeena]

Now that I've tested this… The starting Rapier is total garbage on default TER S Travel Mk1 engine. Feels like it is a 10000 ton freighter train on rails. From its 5000 m/s travel speed it is 15 km brake distance!

10 vs. 12 seconds of travel mode recoil time (TER vs. ARG) is hardly different, and with terrible speed an enemy will make sure you won't get away far enough for long enough to actually use travel mode.
Even the Mk1 travel engines from ARG are better stat-wise. But I've opted for Mk2 Combat variant. The ship feels completely different on ARG engines!

I think at least Rapier is OK. Maybe not the best scout around, but passable. The engines are the real issue.

P.S. It is little known, but it is engine what determines shield depletion rate on boost, not shield (I believe, PAR engines being the best). So, superior shields won't help Terrans in the slightest.

Combat engine is way better in everything except a very long straight line. Also don't just exit travel mode but actively stop the ship (backspace is the default bind, I think).

Mk3 small combat engine is very, very good.

[AsadullinIF]

Nah...Terran ships are still slower than commonwealth with Arg/Par/Split engines installed. Almost every one of terran ships is inferrior version of the commonwealth ships. I cant play it that way. I dont want it to be like that. Terrans - tha race of good shield component and "SUPER-DUPER-EFFICIENT-ADVANCED-ECONOMY" with the worst trade ships in the game. Thank you for that. Humiliation of terrans. Time to say goodbye to terrans i think.

[Genoscythe]

I feel like the whole travel/non-travel mode and boost thing has deterirated combat and ships in general. In pre-rebirth titles ships could not easily accelerate to 1000% of their base speed, so rushing past enemies or to targets was not that much of an easy thing to do. Right now slower ships do not only suffer from the exaggerated sector sizes, but also as player ships because traversal becomes a chore with them, especially in early game. Reaction time is everything now, and slow ships are easy targets on their own, with projectile speeds being what they are for most weapons. Maybe terran ships are better OOS?

[mr.WHO]

Seem this topic is dragged entirely by speed freaks.
Speed in not an only stat that makes ship powerful - someone like fast Split ships and someone else like slow tanky ships.

Terran ships doesn't seems to be best at anything, but are not worst at anything - more or less they present "ballanced" Argon approach, but with emphasis on different areas and special weapons.

Nimcha is best shielded scout with good cargo storage.
Kallis is the best shielded fighter in the game.
Katana is decend all-round corvette.
Falx has most guns of all frigates, while retaining hefty drone storage (it's like Cerberus and Cobra had a baby).
Jian has 6 turrets and placed in such way that you can focus all 6 onto one target.
Osaka is decent all-round destroyer.
Syn has 3 batteries and 8 Large turrets - it's more tanky version of Rattlesnake.
Tokyo, while not a Raptor, has more turrets than typical vanilla carrier.
Hokkaido (or was it Honsiu?) has best storage capacity of all Auxilary ships and has most of the turrets of all auxilary ships.
Asgard is class of it's own.

I wish they would be even better, but for ballance sake, it would get boring rather fast, if Terran ships would absolutely dominate in every form and way.

I think the secret of Terran high-tech is the fact that they can easily pump all these "Slightly-better' ships easily with their simplified economy.

It's like if you would combine WW2 german high-tech with USA production capabilities - that way Terrans dominate.


P.S. I read somewhere that Terran struggle in OOS combat - can someone confirm it?

[Waltz99]

Seem this topic is dragged entirely by speed freaks.

From another speed freak, or maybe not.

I tried to use Argon engines on the terran heavy fighter and the ship gets faster. around 212km/s but not worth noting.
I kept using the Terran engines because of the sound and feeling when you fly alone. They stop and accelerate really fast, I like it.

I don't mind ship to be slower but I noticed that Terran sectors are huge and it takes a long time for a ship to get to another gate.
So as a starter when you can't teleport its pretty time consuming to go from one place to another. Even my baldric transport took a huge time to get to his destination.

a little more speed couldn't hurt.
For economical benefits alone already.

[vertauris]

Well now i have Gladius with Split combats mk4 and its finally managable to fly. i agree that there is something off with the terran engines speed and breaks.

[AsadullinIF]

Seem this topic is dragged entirely by speed freaks.
Speed in not an only stat that makes ship powerful - someone like fast Split ships and someone else like slow tanky ships.

Terran ships doesn't seems to be best at anything, but are not worst at anything - more or less they present "ballanced" Argon approach, but with emphasis on different areas and special weapons.

Nimcha is best shielded scout with good cargo storage.
Kallis is the best shielded fighter in the game.
Katana is decend all-round corvette.
Falx has most guns of all frigates, while retaining hefty drone storage (it's like Cerberus and Cobra had a baby).
Jian has 6 turrets and placed in such way that you can focus all 6 onto one target.
Osaka is decent all-round destroyer.
Syn has 3 batteries and 8 Large turrets - it's more tanky version of Rattlesnake.
Tokyo, while not a Raptor, has more turrets than typical vanilla carrier.
Hokkaido (or was it Honsiu?) has best storage capacity of all Auxilary ships and has most of the turrets of all auxilary ships.
Asgard is class of it's own.

I wish they would be even better, but for ballance sake, it would get boring rather fast, if Terran ships would absolutely dominate in every form and way.

I think the secret of Terran high-tech is the fact that they can easily pump all these "Slightly-better' ships easily with their simplified economy.

It's like if you would combine WW2 german high-tech with USA production capabilities - that way Terrans dominate.


P.S. I read somewhere that Terran struggle in OOS combat - can someone confirm it?

With the same terran engines and shields:
Rattlesnake: 280k hp+shield, 147/4850 speed, 4L main weapons, 6L turrets, 12M Turrets.
Syn: 327 hp+shield, 73/2420 laughable speed, 3L main weapons, 8L turrets, 4M Turrest.
i am sorry, but Syn, the main ATF destroyer is a complete garbage in comparison with the Rattlesnake. Trash.

Katana is ok!

Kallis is a bad in comparison with Ares. - 3 vs 4 shields and 4 vs 2 guns.

Osaka: 303 hp+shield, 88/2930 laughable speed, 2L main weapons, 3L turrets, 10M Turrets.
Rattlesnake: 280k hp+shield, 147/4850 speed, 4L main weapons, 6L turrets, 12M Turrets.
i am sorry, but Osaka is a complete garbage in comparison with the Rattlesnake. Trash.

Hokkaido, miner/gas is the WORST L-miner in the game. Trash.

All other ships are more or less the same - from below average to complete trash.

The terran ships are trash not only on the speed side. But on everything else. Weaponry, shields(the least shielded auxiliary ship and some others ships below average), cargo space, hull hp.

Why? Why? Why it has to be that way? Where is the terran's technological superiority? What the HELL is going on??

[mr.WHO]

With the same terran engines and shields:
Rattlesnake: 280k hp+shield, 147/4850 speed, 4L main weapons, 6L turrets, 12M Turrets.
Syn: 327 hp+shield, 73/2420 laughable speed, 3L main weapons, 8L turrets, 4M Turrest.
i am sorry, but Syn, the main ATF destroyer is a complete garbage in comparison with the Rattlesnake. Trash.

Syn 3 main batteries outgun 4 Rattlesnake batteries in DPS and accuracy.
6L Plasma turrets on Rattlesnake outguns Syn 8L Bolt turrets if you consider 100% accuracy (which is not the case for slow plasma).
However if you Equip Syn with Large plasma or Rattlesnake plasma miss more often then Syn outgun Rattlesnake significantly.

[BlackRain]

With the same terran engines and shields:
Rattlesnake: 280k hp+shield, 147/4850 speed, 4L main weapons, 6L turrets, 12M Turrets.
Syn: 327 hp+shield, 73/2420 laughable speed, 3L main weapons, 8L turrets, 4M Turrest.
i am sorry, but Syn, the main ATF destroyer is a complete garbage in comparison with the Rattlesnake. Trash.

Syn 3 main batteries outgun 4 Rattlesnake batteries in DPS and accuracy.
6L Plasma turrets on Rattlesnake outguns Syn 8L Bolt turrets if you consider 100% accuracy (which is not the case for slow plasma).
However if you Equip Syn with Large plasma or Rattlesnake plasma miss more often then Syn outgun Rattlesnake significantly.

Yeah the main batteries on the Terran ships are more powerful than other factions. The Rattlesnake is guaranteed to lose this battle. You just don't know what you are saying if you think the Rattlesnake would win.

[mr.WHO]

Yeah the main batteries on the Terran ships are more powerful than other factions. The Rattlesnake is guaranteed to lose this battle. You just don't know what you are saying if you think the Rattlesnake would win.

Also Syn can focus all 8 Large turrets on one target. Rattlesnake can focus only 4.

Osaka: 303 hp+shield, 88/2930 laughable speed, 2L main weapons, 3L turrets, 10M Turrets.
Rattlesnake: 280k hp+shield, 147/4850 speed, 4L main weapons, 6L turrets, 12M Turrets.
i am sorry, but Osaka is a complete garbage in comparison with the Rattlesnake. Trash.

Osaka is not Rattlesnake analog - Syn is.
Osaka should be compared to Behemoth or Phoenix (I don't mention Odysseus as I'm on the fence if it should be grouped with these two or more like with Rattlesnake category).

[AsadullinIF]

Yeah the main batteries on the Terran ships are more powerful than other factions. The Rattlesnake is guaranteed to lose this battle. You just don't know what you are saying if you think the Rattlesnake would win.

Also Syn can focus all 8 Large turrets on one target. Rattlesnake can focus only 4.

Osaka: 303 hp+shield, 88/2930 laughable speed, 2L main weapons, 3L turrets, 10M Turrets.
Rattlesnake: 280k hp+shield, 147/4850 speed, 4L main weapons, 6L turrets, 12M Turrets.
i am sorry, but Osaka is a complete garbage in comparison with the Rattlesnake. Trash.

Osaka is not Rattlesnake analog - Syn is.
Osaka should be compared to Behemoth or Phoenix (I don't mention Odysseus as I'm on the fence if it should be grouped with these two or more like with Rattlesnake category).

But Osaka's price is higher than the Rattlesnake. With 3 shileds. Syn is not the Rattlesnake analog at all. 4M turrets on the Syn vs 12 M turrets on the Rattlesnake. Syn cant defent itself from the S-fighters. Osaka is the DIRECT analog of Rattlesnake - 10 M turets, closer to the Rattlesnake speed, but overal - 2 times worse than Rattlesnake.

[mr.WHO]

But Osaka's price is more than the Rattlsnake. With 3 shileds. Syn is not the rattlsnake analog at all. 4M turrets on the Syn vs 12 M turrets on the Rattlesnake. Syn cant defent itself from the S-fighters. Osaka is the DIRECT analog of Rattlsnake, but 2 times worse.

Price doesn't matter due to economy difference between Terran and other races, if anything it's easier for Terrans to gather and produce all Osaka components than Rattlesnake components.

As for M-size turrets - using your words - they are trash and fail to take out even one fighter unless you put flaks on them. Therefore I don't mind that Terran destroyers don't have many of them.

However I do like Rattlesnake medium turret placement and composition density - this is only one of a very few ships that can actually take out fighters with it's medium turrets - on this field Rattlesnake is simply supperio to anything else, bar Raptor.
Syn 4 medium turrets are trash, but this ships is obviously anti-capital in mind. While Rattlesnake is more general purpose.

Osaka with it's 10 medium turrets and placement is on par with Behemoth and superior than Phoenix (which turret placement is absolute trash).
Osaka 3 Large Turrets can focus fire vs 2 Large turrets of Behemoth (and I don't mention trash Phoenix that often can only focus 1 of it's large turrets).

[AsadullinIF]

The terrans NEEDS the balancing. They are gimped right now. The speed of the ships (! - not the engines, the ships!!) MUST to be increased. Maybe not on the Split levels, but somewhere on the other commonwealth ships levels or even faster. The ships are light on the hull-hp side. Theirs sectors are too large. Their ships must be faster than the other ships - it is just the common sense. Simple logic.

[BlackRain]

The terrans NEEDS the balancing. They are gimped right now. The speed of the ships (! - not the engines, the ships!!) MUST to be increased. Maybe not on the Split levels, but somewhere on the other commonwealth ships levels or even faster. The ships are light on the hull-hp side. Theirs sectors are too large. Their ships must be faster than the other ships - it is just the common sense. Simple logic.

I wouldn't mind if their ships were faster honestly. I am going to go mod their speed up a bit lol.

[AsadullinIF]

But Osaka's price is more than the Rattlsnake. With 3 shileds. Syn is not the rattlsnake analog at all. 4M turrets on the Syn vs 12 M turrets on the Rattlesnake. Syn cant defent itself from the S-fighters. Osaka is the DIRECT analog of Rattlsnake, but 2 times worse.

Price doesn't matter due to economy difference between Terran and other races, if anything it's easier for Terrans to gather and produce all Osaka components than Rattlesnake components.

As for M-size turrets - using your words - they are trash and fail to take out even one fighter unless you put flaks on them. Therefore I don't mind that Terran destroyers don't have many of them.

However I do like Rattlesnake medium turret placement and composition density - this is only one of a very few ships that can actually take out fighters with it's medium turrets - on this field Rattlesnake is simply supperio to anything else, bar Raptor.
Syn 4 medium turrets are trash, but this ships is obviously anti-capital in mind. While Rattlesnake is more general purpose.

Osaka with it's 10 medium turrets and placement is on par with Behemoth and superior than Phoenix (which turret placement is absolute trash).
Osaka 3 Large Turrets can focus fire vs 2 Large turrets of Behemoth (and I don't mention trash Phoenix that often can only focus 1 of it's large turrets).

have you forgotten about the Player again? The Player's money are universal. The Player can buy the fleets of the Rattlesnake on the Terran-earned money. With the "SUPER-DUPER-efficient-terrans-economy"

[AsadullinIF]

The terrans NEEDS the balancing. They are gimped right now. The speed of the ships (! - not the engines, the ships!!) MUST to be increased. Maybe not on the Split levels, but somewhere on the other commonwealth ships levels or even faster. The ships are light on the hull-hp side. Theirs sectors are too large. Their ships must be faster than the other ships - it is just the common sense. Simple logic.

I wouldn't mind if their ships were faster honestly. I am going to go mod their speed up a bit lol.

OH NO! What is happening? Are the terran ships not so good as you are trying to describe them? It is clearly gamedesign-balancing flaw. It is a bug. And it is need to be fixed.

[mr.WHO]

have you forgotten about the Player again? The Player's money are universal. The Player can buy the fleets of the Rattlesnake on the Terran-earned money. With the "SUPER-DUPER-efficient-terrans-economy"

I don't like buying from NPC faction as it's too much bother when they temporary lack the resources in their wharf/SY.
Thus ever from 1.0 I'm more production and self-sufficiency oriented.

Money means nothing if NPC faction have no resources to produce their ships - I have frequent resource shortage production delays at ZYA/CUB/FRF shipyards orders (despite my best support with freighters and miners).

I'm yet to see such thing at TER/PIO yards - I put some miners here and there in TER/PIO space (to grind the reputation rank) - so far it seems that Terran economy is at peak efficiency - no shortages anywhere.

[BlackRain]

The terrans NEEDS the balancing. They are gimped right now. The speed of the ships (! - not the engines, the ships!!) MUST to be increased. Maybe not on the Split levels, but somewhere on the other commonwealth ships levels or even faster. The ships are light on the hull-hp side. Theirs sectors are too large. Their ships must be faster than the other ships - it is just the common sense. Simple logic.

I wouldn't mind if their ships were faster honestly. I am going to go mod their speed up a bit lol.

OH NO! What is happening? Are the terran ships not so good as you are trying to describe them? It is clearly gamedesign-balancing flaw. It is a bug. And it is need to be fixed.

Terran ships are stronger than other factions, the speed factor doesn't change that. In a battle between the AI, speed is hardly going to matter. I just am finding the speed for my own personal use to be slow, but then again I can just give them different engines. I wasn't sure if I could build the different faction engines with only terran products though. If I can, then that is fine honestly.

[AsadullinIF]

I wouldn't mind if their ships were faster honestly. I am going to go mod their speed up a bit lol.

OH NO! What is happening? Are the terran ships not so good as you are trying to describe them? It is clearly gamedesign-balancing flaw. It is a bug. And it is need to be fixed.

Terran ships are stronger than other factions, the speed factor doesn't change that. In a battle between the AI, speed is hardly going to matter. I just am finding the speed for my own personal use to be slow, but then again I can just give them different engines. I wasn't sure if I could build the different faction engines with only terran products though. If I can, then that is fine honestly.

Well, in the OOS battles the terrans lose quite often. I dont know, where is the STRENGTH? Super-economy again =)))?