Russia-Ukraine War

[mr.WHO]

- Ukraine gives up the Donbas (currently they still control around 12% of it)

Honestly - Donbas should be very easy bargain chip for Ukraine.

Donbas was always a big liability for Ukraine that enables russyfication of Ukraine society, politics and economy. This was also always major blocker of EU/NATO route for the rest of Ukraine.
If, Ukraine would be able to cut Donbas loose as trade off for getting Ukraine to EU and NATO (or NATO like miltiary guarantees) then this would be good long term benefit.
Granted the remaining 12% of Donbas would still stay with Ukraine dues to containing important parts of Ukraine defense lines.

[burger1]

Zelensky figures it will take Russia about 4 years to get that little bit of Donbas. It is heavily fortified. It also works well for traps. It's not just about land there's other factors. There's no deal to be made Russia or the US. Ukraine and it's allies need to increase weapons production and destroy Russian forces. Ukraine is still being handicapped and limited by other countries. It's the same as the start of the war.

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/ru ... r-AA1KWZEi

Ukraine shoots down Russia drone carrier. China has larger versions.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/ukr ... 04830.html

Ukrainian anti-aircraft gunners shot down a Russian Orlan drone carrying two first-person-view (FPV) drones under its wings for the first time, the 118th Separate Mechanized Brigade reported on Aug. 22.

This marks the first time the Ukrainian military has destroyed a so-called "mother drone" carrying other UAVs, the brigade claimed.

[fiksal]

The giving up part that Russia wants is for Ukraine to officially say those territories don't belong to Ukraine. Therefore all sanctions against Russia are void, and arrest warrant against Putin is void too (since Kremlin can freely kidnap Russian children). That's the logical chain they are building.

So, let's not help fascism.

All Ukraine should need to agree to is to stop fighting where they are at, unless they plan to recapturing anything by force. If Ukraine can work with that, and they seem to be, then EU needs to send in the troops and dictate to Russia the conditions for cease fire. You don't honor Russian terms. You don't pass Ukrainians to be second class citizens in Russia; you keep the sanctions until all cities and towns are back in Ukraine. Further, the Coalition of the Willing needs to send in the troops now, if you want this war to stop.

That's how I see it shaping up. If EU is not ready then we are waiting for Ukraine to collapse Russia's economy or Ukraine to obtain nukes.

Or of course with some US help, Ukraine could lose and its citizens slaughtered until no one left who speaks the language. Bucha and kidnapping of children will be peanuts in comparison. Everyone knows that hopefully.

Then we'll also revisit this war when Russia attacks again and will discuss what Finland, or Poland need to give up to Russia, and whether or not Russia can veto Article 5. USA probably would say yes, Russia can. Then which part of Germany is historic Russian land? I have some answers.

Without having read the article that doesn't sound that bad, to me at first glance.

which part?

[jlehtone]

So according to Reuters these are the key Russian demands for a peace deal:

- Ukraine gives up the Donbas (currently they still control around 12% of it)
- Other frontlines get frozen
- Russia gives up the small parts of Kharkiv, Sumy, and Dnipropetrovsk they control
- There will be no western troops stationed in Ukraine
- No NATO membership for Ukraine
- If Ukraine refuses, the war will continue

Source: https://www.reuters.com/world/china/put ... 025-08-21/

It is easy to make a counter-offer:
- Russians stop shooting
- Russians withdraw from Ukraine
- If Russia refuses, we tell Israel that HAMAS hides in Russia

[fiksal]

force is the only thing that Russia understands.

btw Hamas had visited Russia before and is considered an ally